Empire State of Mind
Empire State of Mind
The Dynamics of Couples in Business With The Paternosters
In this episode, host Matt Williams sits down with the dynamic husband-and-wife team, the Paternosters, to dive into the complexities of running a business together as a married couple. They share their experiences on the importance of clear communication, defining individual roles, and overcoming the challenges they've faced in both their personal and professional lives. The discussion touches on personal growth, the impact of identity in relationships, and how they manage to balance their business while nurturing their partnership. The Paternosters offer valuable insights on self-care, mutual support, and maintaining open communication to create a strong and successful business partnership.
Contact IEB -
- web: www.iebcoaching.com
- email: support@iebcoaching
- social: @iebcoaching
Contact Matt -
- email: matt@dciabq.com
- IG: @the.matthew.williams
We believe the purpose of owning a business is funding your perfect life. Welcome to the next generation of growth and opportunity in the inspection industry. This is the Empire State of Mind. Empire State of Mind Helping build companies with faster growth, higher profits and more time freedom. Finally, a podcast for the home inspection industry and beyond. This is the Empire State of Mind and this is your host, matt Williams.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the show. I'm so glad that you are tuning in today for Empire State of Mind. On today's show we have guests. The Paternosters are here with us today, and how are you guys?
Speaker 3:doing Fantastic man. We're excited to be here.
Speaker 4:Just great. It's good to see you friend.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's good to see you too.
Speaker 2:You know, so we're here at the IEB Fall Mastermind Yep and we had this idea. Let's talk about what it looks like to be in business together as a married couple? Yeah, with your spouse.
Speaker 3:Yeah, with your spouse On purpose. Yeah, right, because running a business isn't stressful enough. Let's do it together. Let's create zero separation between the personal life and work life and just do it all together. It's fantastic, is this going?
Speaker 2:to be a therapy session.
Speaker 3:Oh, it could be. We'll see how it goes yeah absolutely.
Speaker 2:Is this going to be a therapy session? Oh, you could be, we'll see. Yeah, absolutely. I was a pastor for a number of years, so you know I am yeah right, it's a safe environment. Right, that's hilarious as a marriage counseling, yeah. So doing business together as a married couple, it adds a whole other layer of an interesting dynamic Sure.
Speaker 1:What is that?
Speaker 2:Okay. So I'm always like what does that even look like, how does that even work, and and so how do you guys like, what's a date night look like for you guys?
Speaker 4:Oh, we actually love date nights, so it's not like we're separating date night from business or not separating it from kid. We have three children there's still very little and we're not separating it from we actually date night because that's where we usually come up with like napkin businesses.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the bar napkin.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:We. We typically buy like 11 more domains that we come up with, you know, and it's an exciting date night.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so you know I think it's really lame, but yeah. But no. So like I think it's easy to place some guilt around, like when you're in business with your spouse and like you're like all right, we have to go on a date night and we're not allowed to talk about business, right, and so we just assume that that's what it has to be. But the truth is like if I come up as an example, if I come up with a business idea and Jamie encourages me in that business idea.
Speaker 3:Right, and we, we, we, we bar napkin it out. Right, we can act at such a deeper level. Right, because she's encouraging my dream. Yeah Right, wow Right. So I think, that I think that where couples get in trouble when talking about the business and at date night, it's because they're talking about the business and at date night it's because they're talking about the, the, the to-do list, right, or the. You were supposed to do this this week and you didn't.
Speaker 3:Or like ugh this team member Right or like it becomes so negative, Right, and so what I in, like you know, like I'm a, I'm a business coach, right, and I coach, I coach a couple of clients that are couples. And that's what I tell them Like don't not talk about the business. That's impossible for us. We can't, we can't not talk about it Right, but we we allow ourselves a short time to catch up Right, cause you need that. You need to do that Right, so we'll catch up. How'd this go? How'd that go?
Speaker 4:Yeah, we usually. We usually start by sitting and saying hi.
Speaker 3:Right, but usually by the end of dinner, right? So this is the way we do it, right, like you know, we're waiting on the appetizer, the first round of drinks to come, or whatever right, and we're like talking about the life stuff, right Business, the kids, the house, whatever right. Yep, we eat our dinner and then we usually will like have a Manhattan right, and then the food's gone, the pressure's off and that's where we talk about.
Speaker 4:We are so predictable. Well, but, but it works right.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:Right. So like why? Why did you act up a system that works?
Speaker 2:That's right. We've got to find what works for you and your relationship, absolutely.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and what?
Speaker 2:works for you and your relationship maybe doesn't work for everybody else, but you guys have a successful business and a successful marriage. From my perspective, and so many times, having a healthy, thriving marriage and doing business together can be very difficult I see a lot of people that struggle with that.
Speaker 2:I struggled with that back in the day, and so you guys are actually winning at this in my opinion, and so I think it's fascinating to see how you guys do this. You have a little bit of a structure on how you put is it? Is it intentional, like you say, this is the formula, or is it just this kind of naturally just happened?
Speaker 4:I think it naturally From the beginning. It's been perfect actually. No, not at all, Not at all. Okay, yeah, Now it's like let's get real take you to find this groove.
Speaker 2:and was there tension along the way getting there?
Speaker 4:oh a ton, oh my gosh, just a crap show for years you don't.
Speaker 3:You don't find the groove, the groove finds you.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and you just gotta, you just gotta, ease into it, and this is only within just a few last few years. Have we realized this about ourselves? Because our first business that we owned together was in 2009 was that when we started the photo booth, 2010 was like our first paid one right and we both we both had so much. It was your business idea yeah and then like a few months later because I'm such the technician like and it's funny because, now it's home inspection yeah I'm the inspector and I'm like I have a business.
Speaker 4:Please come in and teach me how to like actually have a business, because he's the business. Teach me how to actually have a business Because he's the business coach. He's never been a home inspector.
Speaker 1:Right, same thing with the photo company. Have you ever?
Speaker 3:inspected a house. I mean, I've been at inspections.
Speaker 4:Because I was in labor and I'm like you need to go. There's this guy that I'm treating All right.
Speaker 2:So this is fascinating to me, right, because typical gender roles rolls. You would think that the dude would be the guy in the crawl spaces, in the attics, and the female would be the one that would be a little bit more on the business end of it.
Speaker 1:But you guys have actually got this, you guys are actually I didn't really.
Speaker 2:I knew you did inspections, but I didn't know that you didn't.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no. So the very first business we started in the home inspection space that was in Indiana, which was a licensed state. Yeah, construction space was in which that was in.
Speaker 4:Indiana which was a licensed state.
Speaker 3:Um so um, jamie had already been inspecting in Louisiana and you had to go back through for Indiana for.
Speaker 3:Indiana, that's right, okay. And then, um, uh, jamie, uh, jamie's cousin, and I ended up going several months later. Okay, so, james, uh, jamie's cousin's name, you know he. He got back from school, figured out how to use the software we were using at that time, right, and went to work. And then I just do temper tantrums for like the next two years, not his, oh man. So this is a true story. Oh my gosh, we were at a house once and this is 2013, 2014, I think and like the old school Palm Pilot, right, like, yeah, like just black and gray, like not even white, just black and gray.
Speaker 4:And like this stupid little stylus. Well, it was a stylus, so for me it was usually like one of those pencils, but with no lead. And it would always poke a hole in my pocket.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because that's what I would use, and this is a true story.
Speaker 4:Was so thirsty man, I was like you remember this like legit water thirsty, yeah I was so thirsty.
Speaker 3:I will never forget this until I die. And she is going over this palm pilot with me and I'm like it is 2013 surely there's an app for this.
Speaker 2:No, yeah, you were saying palm pot. I was saying it's like 2002. No man, it's 2013 no, it's 2013. No, yeah, we didn't know right.
Speaker 3:So I was like and I'm thirsty and I'm crabby there's no one else at the house like no no agent, no client. And I look at jay and I'm like I can't do this, like I don't have the patience for this, I can't do this, like I don't have the patience for this, I can't do this, and I left her at the inspection and I went to the gas station to get something to drink. I know, like I just be like.
Speaker 1:So like I joke and I say I got through a temper tantrum for two years, but I did yeah you did so, where it ended up boiling out.
Speaker 3:For me, matt was like I respect the process of a home inspection, right? It's not a matter of disrespect, it's a matter of alignment, right, and I am not wired to pay attention to details. That's not who I am, right. So, like I'm not going to be a good home inspector and we finally, after years of trying, realized that Brandon just was not going to be a home inspector.
Speaker 4:No, we gave up very quickly after that.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We gave up very quickly. After that Was that a we gave up?
Speaker 4:quickly. No, he just straight got fired and he and he and I think it was.
Speaker 2:You fired him.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, you fired your spouse. I've been fired from every business we've ever worked. It wasn't the first one.
Speaker 4:Multiple times.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he was in the photo booth and it but in all these areas.
Speaker 4:We've realized that he was just better not behind the scenes, because you're very much a people person Like. You're very much energetic After that. That was it.
Speaker 4:We realized that he's better with the 60,000-foot view over the business or over the team or over what the vision is, and then he's really good at putting the pieces together. I am very much in the pieces, I am very much the technician, for lack of a better word. I am very much that. Yes, I have vision and yes, I have direction and yes, I care about the brand of whatever it is that we do I care about the brand of our family.
Speaker 1:I care about the brand of our marriage.
Speaker 4:I care about the brand of our companies and I want to vocalize that, but I'm still very much the technician. So it ended up working out really well for us because we quickly, after 10 years, we then quickly realized oh my gosh, we're like fighting each other on what our roles are. We're both trying to do the same things because it's our business.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 4:And that was awful. I mean it just made, I mean date night, sucked man yeah right. Yeah, because we're like no this and he's like no this. But then we realized, oh, we need to be in two different lanes. And then they say you know, oh, stay in your lane. No, that's like a real thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's gotta be it's a real thing yeah, and I think for us, matt, it was not an easy process to get there right, so I think it's easy to look at, like brandon and jamie, and look at, because you know we we live our lives very openly and out loud, right. Like everybody at IAB knows Brandon and Jamie, right? Jamie's always on camera, brandon's a coach, right, like. So I think it's really easy. I think it's easy. Well, that's cause when you're vulnerable and transparent.
Speaker 4:That's really attractive to people, because some people are just really um, it's like very I don't know if disconcerting is the right feeling, but it's really uncomfortable being vulnerable and transparent.
Speaker 2:So when you see somebody else, doing that.
Speaker 4:That's like it kind of lets you let your guard down. It doesn't mean that you're going to right away, but that I think that's why.
Speaker 3:Right, I think that you know, it's really easy to look at the outside and and see who people really are and just assume that that's how they always are, Right, sure. So, like you see, jamie, she's always filled with joy, right, yeah, and, you know, sees the positive in everything and like, yes, that's who she really is, but it doesn't mean that she doesn't have bad days.
Speaker 4:It doesn't mean I don't cry in the closet Right.
Speaker 3:It doesn't mean that, like stress, doesn't overwhelm.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:Right, and the truth is, real life looks a lot different. Yeah, and, and, but we, we are optimistic people and we do focus on the joyous things and we do focus on positivity, right? So listen, I we could come out and we could talk about how many times our marriage was in trouble, right?
Speaker 1:And we will gladly tell those stories Right?
Speaker 3:We will gladly tell you that it's not always easy, but I think you can set yourself up for failure if you just assume that that's how it always is right so I think there's a lot of like just in life. Right, there's there's people we maybe we follow on social media.
Speaker 3:There's, there's maybe even some influences in our life right where it just seems like that person's so well kept, so we keep them in that box. That says like well, you know what works. Yeah, that works for brandon and jamie because they have the perfect life. Or or jamie's so joyous, so like obviously they never have any conflict because jamie's always so happy, except she fired you except for I've gotten fired powerful, independent, independent.
Speaker 1:I independent, yeah, but not for like I don't know, I'm still very, I'm still a yummy submissive wife, but I'm, but I am empowering and I am, like, confident, and I do have vision and I do have drive and sometimes yeah I just want to like absolutely take care of my family and my household and my children and and like just be in the business in like a smaller capacity than I was before I.
Speaker 4:You can change as a like different seasons. We were just talking about the one sheet in session and sometimes we get so stuck on the goals that we've created for ourselves that like go hell or high water.
Speaker 1:This is the goal I'm achieving.
Speaker 4:Well, no, like what if I woke up and the Lord told me like to go a completely different direction today? I'm kind of going to do that because that's where my heart is leading me Right, and that goal is out the window and date night is going to look completely different because there's there's a whole new napkin at that point.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think you know like it, if we were to be truthful, two years ago, our marriage was not doing well right we were constantly.
Speaker 1:It was hard, it was hard.
Speaker 3:I always get nervous when you say that I'm like was there something deeper, but it was hard, because it was hard.
Speaker 2:It was hard, aren't there seasons of?
Speaker 3:Hard. There's feasts and there's famine right.
Speaker 4:Well, and it's in those moments that we realize we have to recalibrate together too, because whenever something like that happens, we realize we have to recalibrate together too, like because whenever something like that happens, we realize, oh my god, we haven't communicated about like right a lot of things in a while and you were recently coaching about like love and respect and a lot of those moments where we feel that tension, we're like, oh my gosh, I don't feel loved and like you don't feel respected.
Speaker 4:And if you just sit and think about we can, we can see that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I think. So what Jay is talking about there is. You know, the gist is, for the most part, right. Men need to feel respected Yep and women need to feel loved yes.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so if I feel like Jamie is not respecting me, then I need to analyze how well am I loving her right now?
Speaker 1:There was a season about two years ago.
Speaker 3:It's easy to look back on it now and immediately identify what the root problem was. But in that mess it was just chaotic and it was disgusting.
Speaker 4:It wasn't Brandon and Jay. We were like roommates for a little season. It felt like the things were getting taken care of the pressure and the kids were good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it wasn't that we disliked each other, but we weren't, brandon and Jamie.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we weren't Like, we weren't Right.
Speaker 3:So I've always said and this still is true in my life I will walk away from this business tomorrow if it means saving my marriage.
Speaker 4:Yeah, is true, in my life, I will walk away from this business tomorrow.
Speaker 2:if it means saving my marriage, that's a really great perspective.
Speaker 4:I don't care. Nobody else cares, it's just a business. They don't care.
Speaker 2:Somebody else will do that stuff, that's right.
Speaker 3:We're fortunate enough to have a lot of friends in the industry, who will probably even tell you who to call.
Speaker 2:It's true.
Speaker 3:That's just always been like kind of my. My navigational force right like is is. Is this causing more damage to my marriage than it's helping it right? Um and, and about two years ago I think, we kind of hit that point right.
Speaker 4:I was burnt out, I was done yeah, and I was too right, she was burnt out, she was done.
Speaker 3:I'll let you kind of talk about, like, the identity crisis that you had, yeah, but, um, but nothing was clicking right, right, but she's the inspector, right? I don't know, I know how to run a home inspection company, but I don't know how to run a services division, right? She's our growth person as well, right? So, like, I know how to do it and I can do it, but it's not something that completely fills my cup, right so?
Speaker 3:at that moment it made sense for brandon to go out and find something else, right? So so I I kind of walked away from the business for about a year. Um, you know, I still had a pulse on it, but, um, and there was some freedom in not checking the metrics a hundred times a day to see where we were at that week, right?
Speaker 4:Um, and I supported you in going to do something.
Speaker 2:It wasn't a negative thing, I think I remember us talking about that a couple of years ago? Yeah, and it was awesome that you had this like moment.
Speaker 4:I was going to say that you had this clarity to go do something else, but I don't know that that it was necessarily clarity. I just knew that you maybe you needed to escape it or something.
Speaker 4:I don't want to put words in your thoughts, but you, you wanted to go do something else and and that's the one thing I knew how to do was like, okay, I'm going to support you in this thing, cause you're not happy and I I wasn't happy doing what I was doing either, but but I didn't know what to do about it, and you knew. So I'm like, all right, sweet, you know some things, I'm just going to support you in abandoning our business.
Speaker 4:That's not what it felt like, but I'm going to support you in going to do this Right and I you know, so like we're faith-based people, right.
Speaker 3:So like we're going to tie it back to our faith but you, you know audience whatever you path in front of you, um, so that you say yes, Um, and you think that it's going to go here, but it ends up taking you way over here.
Speaker 1:Right and so simultaneously.
Speaker 3:That's kind of what happened, right Was I was presented with a path that was going to fill my bucket back up Right, and I thought it was going to take me here and what it ended up doing was taking me to a completely different direction and and like thank God that that happened. Right Like it it it but what it, but what what?
Speaker 2:what that? That? What are the? What is this path, cause you're talking about it?
Speaker 1:but I yeah.
Speaker 3:So like. So the plan was like I was going to go join the IEB team full time Right, and I was going to have a role within. Ieb, and then I was also going to coach Right, in addition to that.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:And by the end of the year, like the 12 months in that thing, coaching became such a much larger role and that had to take the focus. But as that slowly started to creep up, it forced me to do some personal development.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:So one of the things that I think was a game changer was was rst mm um for me mentally, and then jamie got to be a part of that um afterwards, so being forced to learn not forced in a negative way, but like I. I went through rst mm as a person, yeah, and then I went through it and and said I would love to coach this Right. So I got to talk to Mark and the powers that be and next thing I know I find myself in a room with people way smarter than I am. Right, it's great Teaching me how this all aligns Right.
Speaker 3:So I immediately come home from that training I'm like Jamie, this program, like you, you know, and you know it's funny because you actually validated my ABA, matt I was gonna say I remember doing that, yeah, and it was together, it was.
Speaker 3:So. What was so crazy about about that ABA was, is, and you remember this, but it reminded me of who I was, because I'd lost, that I had spent so much time not in my own lane, I had spent so much time focusing on things that I was not good at, things that I did not enjoy, and then I had a bunch of people around me that put me in a box. Right, yeah, and and, and these were people that I once looked up to, people that I once respected, people that I used to want to be like. Right, and so I, at the end of the day, I was completely lost and you were also going through something similar but different. Right, and it was so funny because when jamie got her ava back, you kind of felt inferior and you kind of felt like, um, this is why brandon and I have conflict, because I am not the person brandon needs to be.
Speaker 3:But I saw it completely different because, I don't know, I had all the training, right and what I realized was I actually hadn't the yin, the yin to my yang, or however you want to say that, right? Like the areas where I am high, jamie is low and she balances me out. The areas where I'm low, jamie's high, so she balances me out. Right. So, like I have negative patience, she's the most patient person in the world, right?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:That saves my rear end so many times a day, because I'm like, let's make a decision, let's move, let's do this. And, because of my impatience, I'm not taking in all the data, because I also don't pay attention to the. I pay attention to bullet points, not the whole story. Right, jamie cares about the whole story, and there's sometimes I need bullet points to make a decision. Sometimes I need to wait for the whole story and Jamie catches me in that. Sometimes I need to wait for the whole story and Jamie catches me in that. So I think that gave us permission to utilize each other's strengths more and not get so frustrated with somebody. Because, really, what happens, in my opinion, right, if you get frustrated with somebody because of their actions, their behavior, usually you can tie that back to a strength that they're overusing. And what happens when you get into conflict with anybody, but in particular, your spouse, that you're in business with you?
Speaker 3:just dig your heels in more and you rely on the superpowers that you have because they're your superpowers, all the while realizing that every sip of superpower you take, you're taking two sips of kryptonite. Wow, that's just keeping you in more, because you're not bending.
Speaker 4:Because you're not bending because you're not like recognizing who you're talking with. Is that what you mean, exactly right?
Speaker 3:like no, because not that you don't realize who you're talking with, but because you rely so much on your superpower that you dominate everyone else around, oh got it right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I see right yeah so so at the same time as I was trying to dig myself out of a box.
Speaker 3:I was just putting Jamie in one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh my gosh Right.
Speaker 3:Because I was using my ability to be direct and my ability to be intense to steamroll her.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that is not, and that like squished me that totally like just kept pounding me into the hole that I was in, and that's not what you were trying to do right.
Speaker 3:No, no, no. I was doing the right thing, man Right, absolutely Well, the right motivations. Exactly, yeah, yeah, I was chasing the right thing, right? I'm going to be a supportive husband. I'm going to correct.
Speaker 4:Oh, I was not supportive at all.
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh it was the worst. No, it was just me being a jerk.
Speaker 2:Oh, it was the worst, and not that I was trying to be right my intentions were good yeah.
Speaker 2:But isn't that crazy? Like we can have like the best intentions and we think we're doing the right thing, and and and yet the other side of the equation is not receiving it that way. I mean that like. And then you talk about like working together as a married couple in a business that would almost like amplify it, turbocharge it, make it louder and more obnoxious, and the fact that you guys had to like wrestle through that, figure that out, and then and now you guys have found some alignment there oh, a total alignment that is awesome yeah, total alignment.
Speaker 2:So that's the secret sauce that so many people don't find yeah, well.
Speaker 3:So you have to, you have to ask why, and you have to put in the work, and both parties need to be willing to humble themselves, right, and that's so hard to do when you feel personally attacked. Yeah, right, yeah. And then your identity so much of us tie our identity up into our role, into our title, right, yeah. So then you have the person that is supposed to have your back, no matter what right, the person that's supposed to be there for you, no matter what, the person that you're one with, right, and, and now they're challenging you and your identity at work. Yep, wow, how does that not challenge your identity as a parent or as a co-parent with that person?
Speaker 1:how does that not not?
Speaker 3:challenge your identity and how you communicate with that person. It's impossible. I mean, if I were to have met a couple that were to say, oh yeah, we can get in the biggest blow-up fight at work and at 5 o'clock, take that hat off and have a completely fine marriage.
Speaker 4:Yeah, one of them is not being honest. I'm like you need to ask your spouse if that's true, because that's not. It's. I'm honest. I'm like you need to ask your spouse if that's true, because that's not. Yeah, that's not true. Think about it.
Speaker 3:You have a difficult conversation with a team member right. And then you have to go home and sleep in the same bed as that person. You would never do that.
Speaker 2:You would never.
Speaker 3:You would never do that.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, right, yeah. So if you're going to protect your marriage, have some boundaries. And I think the other thing that I've learned and, jay, you know you can absolutely speak to this if you agree, but is you hit?
Speaker 2:different ceilings.
Speaker 4:I'm waiting for him to pause and then I'll speak.
Speaker 2:You hit different ceilings.
Speaker 3:Yeah, just like you do in business, right. So like so like the things that we used to bicker about before are now, not even like something that even we think twice about today, right, and so what we're?
Speaker 4:doing is we're learning new ways for an attack on our marriage to come, and how to be right, because now they come at so much, so much higher levels you know what I mean, right, yeah, but at least now we're prepared, because we know what it looks like, like as we're running uphill or down into the pit or whatever the picture can look like. We're totally prepared for that. Now we've got armor in front of us sure and we're like how does it feel?
Speaker 3:what do you think? So, wait, wait, that armor is. How would you describe what some of that armor is though? Right, like what it? What is it like? What is it? What is a piece of?
Speaker 4:what do you mean to go into like the belt of truth and the shield of faith? No, like out of some of that, because I mean I have my list, obviously, but the kind of some of the cause.
Speaker 3:I mean, I have my list, obviously, but the kind of some of the stuff that we've worked on in the last couple of years, right Like how do you know?
Speaker 4:I uh, I'm not sure if I'm going to answer that, but I one of the one of the things that I had to realize about myself was that my identity was not a joy filled home inspector Like that's not what every little girl wants to be when they grow up.
Speaker 2:And I'm sorry, but that's not what, like every man wants to be when they're a homospector barbie, I know right, oh snap, there should be matt, there should be a homospector barbie, especially after that barbie movie where it was like all like women power and like right and it's like women around the world, and then of course you have the ken and then the not enough and all that. It was so funny, but yeah, but yeah. They should be a home inspector Barbie. No, totally, you know what it's funny.
Speaker 4:Wow, this is going to take a total turn than where I thought I was going. So, um, so it COVID. So I've been a. It's been 15 years now, but I'm an inspector.
Speaker 2:January, 15 years Wow.
Speaker 4:And I loved my job in the beginning because it was a really good income for our household.
Speaker 1:It was great.
Speaker 4:You're a fireman, you, you like, saved people's lives, but you got paid pennies, right. And then I was a great home inspector. And then, all of a sudden, we moved to Indiana, we have our kiddo, a couple of kiddos, and I'm still a home inspector. And you become, and I became this. Now I'm this like wife, mom, home inspector. Oh man, I thought I could conquer anything, anything you talk about like super mom, like well, and I wasn't, and I didn't have this like big ego as a negative thing. I was just super confident like I was doing this and I was the breadwinner for our family. I was, um, I was really good at not only like being the technician and, like you know, commanding authority in the house in not a puffed up chest way. You, home inspector, do not have a puffed up chest Like that's just going to kill your entire business.
Speaker 4:So, but with but, like going into this technician thing with care and candor and, um, like a good, hearty handshake and not being like a dainty girl I can't even think about, like the, the weak handshakes.
Speaker 2:It gives me the chills up my spine.
Speaker 4:Oh, yeah, anyway, um, sorry, I got really distracted but like having all these really awesome things happen and then and then really understanding growth mode, which at the time we just called it marketing. We didn't even know IB existed at this point, Right.
Speaker 4:And you feel really good building this business on your own. I had two employees. I had to figure that out, like how to actually do that. I had a girl answer the phone, so like things were going really, really well and we had two kiddos at the time. And then I was like like I, I, I think I, we, we, we knew Jesus, we were going to church. Oh, then I thought it was a great idea to, like you know, lead a life group. I thought it was a great idea to, like you know, lead a life group and like we did a couples group and I I kind of started losing my identity then, like as a, and I didn't realize it until like literally just now, and I'm saying it out loud. That's probably when I started to lose my identity, like who I was, this joy filled Jamie who was a great friend and a great daughter and a great wife, and like I just really wanted to be a good mom.
Speaker 4:But then we moved to Metro Detroit and we started the new company and I remember thinking this before IEP. I remember talking we were in a franchise at the time and I was talking to our franchisor. Is that like the leader, the owner, I was talking to our franchisor and I'm like I was crying. I'm like there's got to be more. Like I know how to start a business from the ground up, like I did it this would be like the second time doing it, third time and I know how to walk into an office and I know how to do a really great inspection. Like I know how to follow up. Like I wasn't missing any of those parts, but there was something deep inside that I was missing. I'm like there's got to be more. And he just patted me on the head and said, no, no, jamie, you just need to go into more offices. And that's not what I meant. And I was like there's gotta be like collaboration or accountability.
Speaker 4:And I didn't really even know what, like the word accountability meant, um, so I just kept plugging along and it was, and that was the start of my like hole digging, losing my complete self, I think.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:So in 2020, this is where Barbie came into play, right. So in 2020, COVID I was doing and for any home inspector knows that like four inspections a day is obnoxious.
Speaker 1:Like that's not that is.
Speaker 4:that is insane and you should like I should not ever condone that right but I was super mom. Right, you do and your mom, but I was, but I was super mom, right, so so I remember. Um, it was like covid may. Maybe was it covid may I hadn't found out that I was pregnant yet, or maybe I think it was like june, july, with baby number three. Yeah, so I was doing zach abuna. He was that and I just told him last week. I just I sat with him.
Speaker 4:Yeah, he's a top producing agent in our area. Um, he was like one of our biggest, uh, real estate agents that worked with us and he was buying his personal home for his family and it was a big deal for me so it was like inspection number three or four for the day or something. So I go, I go to Zach's house, I'm we're finally using a spectora, we're not we're not with a Palm pilot at anywhere and um and we hadn't yet heard about IEB.
Speaker 1:I don't know. We were in.
Speaker 4:IEB. Oh, but clarity wasn't a word that I truly understood, or like, oh, go, get clear, go clear. And I was like I don't even know what this means. So so I was, I was at the front yard of, like his personal house and you know, you got to click boxes for the landscaping and, like you know, make the soil go away from the house, and I'm like I'm not going to click this box in his house. I'm like screw this so I get on my hands and knees.
Speaker 4:I'm fixing the mulch to like put it up against the house because I'm like this is Zach, you know I'm not going to, you know whatever, and it up sometimes.
Speaker 2:sometimes it's faster to fix it then sometimes it's faster to fix it loose handle ah, where is that?
Speaker 1:in my no get the screwdriver out, just tighten the handle. Whatever above and beyond right. You're welcome is what I always say, with a smile and really inside.
Speaker 4:I'm like, oh, gracious, um, so I'm like fixing the mold and I go to stand up and I hit my head right here I always know exactly where it is hit my head on a concrete planter under the window and it brought me right back down to my knees and I was probably there for like a minute, which is a really long time.
Speaker 4:Yeah, just trying to catch my breath and realize, like what just happened and it wasn't stupid that I was fixing the mulch it was that I was way overworked and I had like way higher expectations out of myself than I needed to.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 4:And so I had to catch my breath and think am I just going to like be done right now or should I finish this? So I I got like my bearings and I like I could feel it dripping. So I like push this, you know, blood back into my ponytail and I was like I just have to finish this because I'm a badass, right. So I got so and I was like I just have to finish this because I'm a badass, right. So I got back up and I finished fixing the molds and I do the rest of the entire inspection. His whole family comes. They're all looking at the house Every once in a while I go in the bathroom and I'm like pushing the blood back into my ponytail, you know.
Speaker 4:And I think at one point his mom even asked me like are you good? I'm like oh, I think I just got spooked and I hit my head. You know it's fine, but I how dare I tell them I am weak and I am overworked and like I need to like just take a break and I and I think I really cut myself pretty bad, but like I'm not going to tell them that Cause, then I'll be the weak girl, that's that you know can't possibly do this technician.
Speaker 4:You know manly job and I wouldn't dare put like let them know my weakness Right, which is really a strength. Anyway, you love that, like your, your biggest strength is typically your weakness. So anyway, which is totally true, you're really good at what you do, um, and so I like I finished it up and I and I go home and I'm like Brandon, you got to let you know, fireman, a paramedic man who was already coaching people.
Speaker 4:at this point I was like you need to look at this. I ended up, you took me to urgent care and I got like six stitches in my head or something and then we, like you know, went away with our family for the weekend and that was it. I think that was probably my last inspection at that point, because it was COVID.
Speaker 2:We had a team of like nine or something. We had like five inspectors, I don't remember.
Speaker 4:You remember, you guys, we did, and so shortly thereafter I was out of the field and I was out of the field for two years. Yeah, so that next monday, like I remember, we were sitting, um was sitting with my kiddos watching encanto for like the 37th time because it came out during covid right watching encanto with my kids and it go.
Speaker 4:And if you're a parent of young children, you understand Encanto. So all these cousins and brothers and sisters, they all have their strengths and they're expected to be like. Luisa was very strong and she could hold the world and everyone's problems on her shoulders. And then there was Mirabel, who did not know what her strength was. She was very left but she, like, wanted to be the glue that held everyone in her family together. And then there was the one that, like the cousin that knew the whispers, like she could hear a pin drop from a mile away, like she truly understood what was going on. And then there was who got cast away. It was Bruno. And then Bruno got cast out of the family because he was a prophet, I mean, he could literally speak into everyone's lives and tell you what's about to happen, probably because of the hurts, habits and hang-ups that he could see in your life. Because they were family, they were close-knit, right and I resonated with every single good job disney.
Speaker 1:I resonated with every single person in this movie.
Speaker 4:Now it was a kid movie, but they've been doing a really good job, like speaking to grownups, right. And I was like I was crying and dying and being crushed inside because I was like I relate to every single character in this movie and I can't tell anyone because I will appear weak, I'll be a weak wife for you and I can't be a weak wife. I'm doing this business thing and I can't tell my team because, like I was the crier anyway but no, really understood why I couldn't tell anybody in IEB, because I was the joy-filled one I was, the happy one I was the one that.
Speaker 4:Rob Lemoine looked at when he's on stage and he's like, yeah, like in the audience, you know so.
Speaker 4:I couldn't dare share that. I was having this like deep identity crisis and I was not in the right mode, like I remember pulling Rob Hopkins aside at one of our IEB events and being like Rob, I kind of just don't want to do this anymore. Like can you just take my business? And like can I just do something with you instead? And Rob Hopkins and all the love and genuine that he is, he was like Jamie, I would do anything with you. You just name it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And he left it, it that, and I left and I was like shoot, name it. I don't know what I want to do. I just I want to be part of all of this, but like I don't want to do this anymore. But I had no idea how to get clear and then I got a coach and she taught me how to get clear.
Speaker 3:It was the most incredible thing ever and that was a long journey yeah, so I think you know what's easy to do is is blame the business when it gets hard. Right, yeah, it's easy to blame the business, and I think what what I've learned is to embrace the challenge that the business is throwing into the marriage.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So, like Jamie and I both went through this season of an identity crisis and you know, we fortunately we had some coaches that that helped navigate us through that. For sure, yeah, but so much of our identity had been tied up to our jobs and to our role, right, right, and. And what affects you there, affects you there, right. So like you, you can't necessarily have an identity crisis at work and then not also have one at home, right, like work is so much of our life. Yes, right, can I interrupt you?
Speaker 4:and you stay on the same mode because you got something really good to say. But, like I, when I, when I stepped out of the field, I had no idea what else to do. So like that next monday I like went to work but I didn't know what to do at all. Oh, you know, greg Bryant has been very open about like when he stepped out of the field. Like I, when I I no longer went to a house and commanded not commanded authority in a bad way but like they hired us because I knew what I was talking about. And they're looking to you for really good information right.
Speaker 4:They're looking to you to empower them to make good choices. So when I no longer went to do that, when I no longer got that hearty handshake at the end of the inspection like good job, young lady, or oh man, I'm so glad you found that thing, no one was telling me I was doing a good job anymore and I had no idea that would be so hard. No one warned me that would be a thing, and so I had to find out, like where in the business could I even do the work? I didn't know what was next because I didn't want to do the business stuff, which is why I just hired home inspectors and, like, taught someone else how to answer the phone.
Speaker 4:I didn't want to go do the growth stuff. I was just completely lost. I was completely lost. So then, when I come home and in our marriage and stuff, when you're the, when you're the one that takes charge in the house all day being an inspector, and then you go home as a wife, I really wanted you to take charge in the house, but I was so used to taking charge of something that I didn't know how to put that down, because now I am no longer in charge of anything. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's wow, that is really deep. Um, I mean, I can tell you that, like what you're, I mean I just I look back at my own life and I see these patterns that I've seen in my friends' lives. We've left talking to you Like what you're.
Speaker 2:What you guys are describing right now is a pattern that I think a lot of people get into and get stuck into, and that the identity thing, like that is such a big deal and and it's so easy to lose your identity and being a dad or a mom or a business owner, or, and so much so, our culture does this like. So much so that, like, when you go to like to social events and you go to parties and like, yeah, what's your name? Like, what do you do? Right, and it's like, yeah, it's what do you do? So our identity is wrapped up in what we do for work, specifically, how do we earn a living, becomes the identity of who we are, and when that all of a sudden needs to change, then you can have an identity crisis. Yes, because it's like we don't ask who are you Right? Like hi, it's like, so, who are you Like deep down inside.
Speaker 1:Right, that's not something we ask in.
Speaker 2:it's just like what do you do for a living and then like well, I, I work at ups managing a fleet of trucks, or or I'm I'm a home inspector, or I I do this, or I do that, and and like that becomes your identity and like, yeah, when that, when that shifts, then your identity that can change the whole world.
Speaker 3:Yep, yeah, you know. So just a quick point on that. Uh, chris boss, um the fbi negotiator guy uh, I just saw a tiktok or a reel or whatever something where he said he doesn't ask people anymore what they do for a living because you just get this coined elevator response back. So instead he says what do you love most about your job?
Speaker 2:That's a great question, yeah, so.
Speaker 3:I just heard this, like in of last week, so I'm going to totally start using that. What do you love about your job? What do you love most about your job?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because then you get to learn what they actually do, but you get to learn that deeper Right, right, right. That's a great question. You're so far away. No, that is such a great question.
Speaker 3:So anyways, so you know what happened, I think is you know so Jamie was going through this huge life change at work right.
Speaker 2:And was this like before or after your big life change of the coaching shift?
Speaker 3:This was before. Okay, yeah, so it started with Jamie, and I think in a lot of ways it's it started with Jamie so that it would start with me, right, yeah, because once we had conflict, then I realized areas of my life that weren't working either. Yeah, right, okay. So you know. So one of the things that's true today very much still. Even our marriage today is like Jamie's love language is words of affirmation, and it's not even on my radar, right.
Speaker 4:No, like don't tell me I'm pretty, or don't tell me like those genes, but like tell me I'm a really good mom or tell me wow, you like rock that thing, right, yeah, so thanks for thanks for doing dishes. I was just really tired, like just anything right, anything that has meaning, right, yeah.
Speaker 3:So so you know for for jamie to have that be such an important thing of her life, right? And for me never even to think about it, right like because it just it's. It's not something I care about. Right like, if I'm being honest, right like I don't need words of affirmation. Yeah, so I didn't realize over the last 10 years how used jamie got, had gotten used to being told how great she was every day um in the field yeah right.
Speaker 2:Right so she that bucket's getting filled up at somewhere else.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like you're not at home.
Speaker 3:You have to Well, I never had to do it because she was being told it all the time.
Speaker 2:Three times, four times a day, like dang you crushed that inspection.
Speaker 1:When I say it wasn't even on my radar.
Speaker 3:I was a plane flying in Michigan. She was a plane flying on the other side of the planet.
Speaker 4:Right, Like it wasn't it was so far off my radar.
Speaker 3:I don't. I don't realize what the root problem is, Right. And then she's trying to learn a new role.
Speaker 1:She's trying to lead people.
Speaker 3:I am so frustrated with the business because I'm constantly pulled into things that aren't my lane Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Um, and then she needs to be encouraged, but I'm not in a spot where I'm encouraged, so I can't encourage her.
Speaker 1:And it snowballs into like this really, really terrible communication.
Speaker 3:Both of our degrees are in communication. We pride ourselves in communicating.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, that would be irony right. Like you're a college educated on how to be good communicators.
Speaker 4:Yes, and we're not communicating.
Speaker 3:Yes, with each other. And we're not communicating at all, and it was because we were one, I think we both completely lost track of our why, yeah, right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, or forgot that I was allowed to have a why. Because, when I started this, we were barely married. Were we even we were married? No, we were not married when you started being a home inspector? No, we were not married when I started being a home inspector A year after you started being a home inspector, right?
Speaker 3:So Jamie had so much identity tied up into being a home inspector? Yeah, and it never even crossed my mind, because this was the national progression of the business, right?
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 3:Like this was something we were celebrating. Sure, you were excited to leave the field. Things are good. Jamie got to be pregnant and not inspect houses. That had never happened before no, that's.
Speaker 4:Oh. Yes, you're right, you're right I actually used it as my excuse because I was the, you know, eight and a half month old pregnant lady.
Speaker 3:Eight and a half month old, eight and a half month pregnant lady that would still be on the roof like it was just our son and our daughter it was probably very irresponsible now.
Speaker 4:Now I think about that.
Speaker 2:But no, it was just part of who I was. It was fun.
Speaker 4:So this third pregnancy I got to use as the outward excuse, although to me I knew that wasn't the truth. It was because I hated everything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but you used the pregnancy as my excuse.
Speaker 1:I'm pregnant so I'm going to step out of the field, and everybody was like, oh, obviously, yeah, that makes sense?
Speaker 3:Well, almost everybody, yeah, but we lost some of those agents Because I wasn't yeah, because the pregnant woman didn't want to get on the roof of the crawl space yeah yeah, yeah, that reflects on them more than you for sure You're just a commodity being used. At that point I kind of agree with that. Yeah, that kind of feels right. So also you have these people that were celebrating you that are no longer celebrating you.
Speaker 3:Yeah Right, because of a very rare life experience, so that also ties into that With our son and our middle daughter. Jamie did inspections while in labor Right, took two or three weeks off and then went back to inspecting. Yeah Right, wow, so like she deserved to not be inspecting on the third pregnancy yes, Right.
Speaker 3:And again. So all of these decisions were made as a rite of passage. Right For a successful business? Sure, right, yeah, all things to be celebrated. And that's where my of passage. Right For a successful business? Sure, right, yeah, all things to be celebrated. And without, and that's where my brain was right, like congratulations, we give awards out in IEB to people that get out of the field. Yeah, we sure do and meanwhile, Jamie goes up to get that award and she has no idea who she is anymore.
Speaker 4:Oh, I still had no idea who.
Speaker 3:I was.
Speaker 4:And somewhere in that like taking, like being out of the field, thinking this is like the next step for me. I went and got a part-time job at my church, like as the connections director. Wow, Because I'm like surely I'm supposed to connect people. So now that I have and I did not have time Because I was still trying to figure out like taxes and like- payroll and the things that I had just never done before that I still like hated it needed, like hated it needed to be done, and then so I was like well, but I need to be around people, so maybe I'll just get.
Speaker 2:I got like a 20 hour a week job at my church, that's so funny. So then I no longer had weekends either yeah, oh, it was miserable we did.
Speaker 4:I remember one of our very first staff meetings at church and I love my church.
Speaker 4:It was, and the staff was like incredible yeah and so I was at my very first, very first staff meeting after the baby was born and I went back and we, like, we all got pulled together and um, the CEO, uh, ceo yeah, that's her title, right Was um brought up the uh, the topic burnout and she was like, if you feel this, if you feel this, there were like 11 different things. If you feel this, then, like, we watched a video on it and I wept the whole time.
Speaker 4:But I'm like this is my first deaf meeting. I can't like back out of this. Surely something else is wrong in my life. Like it can't be burnout. That was never a word. I used for myself anyway.
Speaker 2:Did you check off like a bunch of them?
Speaker 4:Oh, the majority of them yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, and you were like oh my gosh, the ones that I hadn't checked off was like suicidal thoughts and you know like it wasn't you know, but it was like do you feel lonely?
Speaker 4:do you feel like you have no idea where your place is? Are you always, you know, tired, or can you no longer relate to those that you consider your best friend, and so it's just like all these, I mean google it, you know there's a great list, sure, um, so do you check off the majority of them? Yeah, like you're burnt out. I need to really dig in with a coach or somebody, a therapist, I didn't know who I needed at the time.
Speaker 4:But like on literally what is serving you and who are you, and just back out and look at this room from like the ground up.
Speaker 3:So I think you know all of those things led up to just us not firing on all cylinders.
Speaker 2:So you guys each kind of went into your own individual identity. We did Like rediscovering. We did I wouldn't say crisis own individual identity like like rediscovering. I wouldn't say crisis, maybe crisis, but identity like rediscovering. Crisis of like you were going through yours and then, as you're going through, you had yours and. And the fact that you guys were able to navigate to identity crisis is while running a business and married all at the same time, like and and with kids, and with three very little children, and our parents live hours away right right, that that's um, that's that really speaks to y'all's like resilience and your character and your strength of character, that you have to do all of that and get all the way through.
Speaker 2:That. I mean on this side of it, right, like I understand, in the middle it probably felt like a storm, but right, but to be on this side of it now is that's really amazing. It probably puts you guys in a great position to help other people when they're facing their bumps.
Speaker 4:I think you're right and I was going to say like that was all God, and that's totally true. I was recently at a conference it was a woman's conference in my church and one of the pastors was talking about having a breakdown and she was like, yeah, you, you at some point in your life and maybe at many points in your life. You will have a breakdown, yeah, but then you will have a break open because, like, you can't have a breakdown without something happening from there. Right, you're like, oh, this is my lowest point.
Speaker 4:Like you have this breakdown, then you have a break open yep in order to then be, like, completely exposed and then have your breakthrough. And I think that that was a season where, like, we had to get to that point, to really start the journey of authentically understanding who we are and what are our actual dreams and visions. And does this home inspection have anything to do? The company have anything to do with it? And I think through that we realized oh, this is who I am. Our company is a really cool vehicle to take us to where we're going as, like humans, I think that what is important to pay attention to is when you're going through these seasons of struggle.
Speaker 3:One of the first places that we actually need to start is looking at what needs to be cut out. Right, Right Cause you're usually doing too much or trying too hard in areas you shouldn't be trying, and I think that was so true for us is like I was trying to have a piece of the things that I wanted, so I kept telling Jamie uh, paraphrasing to stay in her lane, but then I kept getting in her lane.
Speaker 4:Yeah, right.
Speaker 3:And then she, in some regards, was doing the same thing to me, like stay in your lane, but then she kept getting in my lane, yeah Right.
Speaker 1:So how can?
Speaker 3:I look at her and say I trust you to make decisions in this business If I, if I don't actually trust her to make decisions in business, right? So I don't know that the way we handled it Is the right way, right, like I essentially quit for a while and I quit the business for a while and but you know, thank God, that he's sovereign and brings us back when we get a little lost, but so not that I would change anything because it brought us to where we are today. But I don't think I handled it the best way, right. I think I handled it out of some frustration. Thankfully, I had some really good people to come alongside me during that time period that poured into me. I learned a lot about myself, you learned a lot about yourself. But ultimately we came back together and we said, all right, like I missed being in the business, you missed me being in the business.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And we sat down and we kind of had that like who's going to do what and what is this going to look like?
Speaker 4:Talk about date night. We ended up. I'm like you need to get me out of here now and it was like winter, was this two years ago? It was winter.
Speaker 1:I'm like I need to get out of here.
Speaker 4:I'm crawling in my own skin, and so Brandon's like okay.
Speaker 1:And he gets on, you know Travelocity or whatever, delta or something, and he got two plane tickets, tickets to where do we go washington state and he was like we need to get out of here.
Speaker 4:So we land in washington state, we get our rental car, we stop at like walgreens, we buy some put. We buy a big roll of wrapping paper because we're like we need a whiteboard.
Speaker 3:Yep, so we got a big roll of wrapping paper. We use the white side, yeah and we got a bunch of post-it notes and some markers, and we went to this.
Speaker 4:This is everyone's dream getaway, you know yeah, this is our this is our date night. This is our napkin thing. Yeah, we got there and we like unwinded, and then we put up our wrapping paper on the wall and we were, and brandon like guided the two of us through this journey, like wow what is it that you want? So, for three days, what do you want? So we had, like these personal, personal journey boards, personal whiteboards with all these post-its and like, okay what is the order of and of and?
Speaker 4:we need quarterly. We need to take solo trips, like literally away, like you need to take four a year. I got to take four a year. What? What do we want our business to look like? What are in our different divisions? What is the org chart ending up looking like? Because, of course, and we know from our beginning times in IEB I think it was RGT that we went through it was like your business is a monster that will eat you up if you don't keep it at arm's distance and say, like this is what I want you to do for me, gary.
Speaker 4:Keller says the purpose of business is to fund the perfect life. Whose perfect life? Mine, not like everyone else's perfect life for me, but like mine. What is it that I want to do? This business is going to be the vehicle that gets us there, and that was. It was the most incredible, like time away.
Speaker 3:It was, and I think that we had ever, because, like, listen, we get ourselves into trouble in the business when it becomes about the business and not the why, right, right.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Right, right. So, like you know, jamie has struggled with clarity off and on. We've got some good resources now that I think that help. I've been clear on my why, but I get distracted really easy. So I think a pivotal point for us was when I understood what Jamie needed, and Jamie understood what I needed. And I think one of the things that's so important is that we meet people where they are.
Speaker 1:And, at the end of the day, marriage is not 50-50.
Speaker 3:I saw this on a TikTok or something a couple years ago and I think this is some of the best marriage advice that I've ever gotten from the Internet. But, marriage is not 50-50. And it's not right.
Speaker 3:Because some days I can only show up at 5%, right, right. And she needs to take over 95%, that's right. Which means she's going to wake up before I do and she's going to make lunches and she's going to get the kids dressed and she's going to make breakfast and she's going to go to work all day and she's probably going to make dinner and do the dishes and I am going to make sure the house doesn't burn down because that's all I have the energy for that day Right, and then on the flip side, she's going to have a day where she's only at 5%, 20%, right, and I think one of the things that I've in my generation, right, I think it's really easy for dudes to be selfish, right, like we have a culture where it's easy for the guy to be selfish.
Speaker 3:He can go, he can go play basketball, he can go play a round of golf, right, but the mom is supposed to still be the mom right default and there's all kinds of, like you know, history and science, and and, and, and, and, and all those things that go into that right, right, but by nature, women are more caring and they are more emotional, and they are those things which makes them good moms, right. Which makes them good spouses, right, yeah, so what I have found is it's really easy for me to take advantage of that and just say all right, Jay, you got this Right, Right. But. Jay also works 50 hours a week, every single week? Right, that's wild.
Speaker 3:And Jay also has some really, really important things going on at work, right? So what I need to do, and what I'm encouraging the dudes out there that are going to listen to this, is yes, be selfish, take care of yourself. You have to force your wife to take care of herself because she's not going to Right. She's just not going to right. She's just not going to do it. Right, so when she adds stuff to the Amazon cart for herself, just fricking, buy it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, like that book that I ended up just putting in the save for later, right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, just buy it. I don't buy things, I'm not like a shopper. But right, clean the house, encourage her to have good women around her.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so like the WIEB trip like I can't wait for.
Speaker 4:Jamie to leave.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like I'm packing her bags, like get out of here.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I got the house, don't worry, and it's completely self-serving Like, if I'm being honest, oh yeah.
Speaker 4:Because I come back like oh, oh, man changed my life two years in a row. We were just in the mountains with these like 14 amazing women who all feel the same thing in some capacity, and the majority of us oh yeah, all of us were wives. You know, we were all very much in the business, all of us were owners. I think that was like the thing.
Speaker 4:Like we had to be owners and we all we all were going through the. We're all human, so we're all going through the same thing. There was nothing new, like none of us had something that the other one hadn't heard of before. But when you get to dig deep, like this year, we talked about limiting beliefs and like reframing them for each other, and we don't.
Speaker 4:I don't have like a friend at home that I can do that with regularly that speaks on the same, on the from the same, from the same perspective of being a business owner in the home inspection industry. I have really incredible deep friendships, but with IEB we were literally all talking about the same thing. And man that was empowering, so I got to come home. This is where it was self-serving for you, I got to come home.
Speaker 4:Full is where it was self-serving for you, I got to come home like full and clear and on mission and that serves my entire household yeah, it was awesome the truth is, and and I'm sure everyone can relate to this when, when she's good, my life is easier.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, right, well and vice versa yeah vice versa, like yeah if you're a happy person into your household, yeah if you're a happy person, then other people around you are going to benefit from that, right, but if you're worn down yeah, I mean your point of like you're basically saying like you want to, you want your spouse to invest in herself because it's hard to do it for yourself. Yeah, you know, I don't know. I you're saying like, well, it's easier for husbands or men to be more selfish, but don't I think that I think I don't know if it's a husband wife thing. I think there's. There's everybody wrestles with that on some level. Yeah, you know where it's like well, um, somebody will lay down their life and work extra and do all the extra stuff to help.
Speaker 3:you know do what they're going to do.
Speaker 2:Yes, and and, and I think um both partners can be doing it in different ways and I think having that like like you say like, as spouses, we encourage each other to go invest in each other. Um is, rather than saying like I need I'm feeling depleted, I need you to give me more, maybe saying like I feel depleted and I can see that you're depleted, why don't you just go to you? And if you and you know what I mean yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3:That would save so many relationships. And to clarify, I think society, like in society, it's easier. You know Saturdays are for the boys, right, like? I think society promotes it in a way that makes it easier. But, yeah, like. So I don't want to discredit the men at all, right, Like the mental crap that we carry as teachers is is like, especially in owning the business.
Speaker 3:Right, Like the weight on my shoulders every single day to make sure that my kids are protected, to make sure my team is protected, right, that stress is immeasurable, right. I just think that in society, it's you see men taking time for themselves way more than you see women doing it. Yeah, I think so, and what I am proposing is hey, this weird thing happened to me where Jamie had to get away and then she came back like better and my life got better so like maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way, right.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, instead of saying like, go to pleading for and like you know, like you know like, yeah, like the kids are a lot of work right, but but they also know dad's routine right that's right.
Speaker 4:So like, yeah, you're not babysitting for me, you're like literally being a dad, right, like?
Speaker 3:so I have to wake up. Who's watching your children?
Speaker 4:while you're gone. Well, my husband right right right, their dad, yeah, and it's not like you're watching he. He's watching your kids like you said yeah, I know right. Isn't that funny. They do that, though People ask you that They'll say that.
Speaker 2:Oh, you're watching the kids this weekend or whatever. I'm like they're my kids.
Speaker 3:What do you mean?
Speaker 2:I'm watching them. No, like all the people check in on me and I'm like, isn't that weird? I do this, I'm a dad, I can, I cook, I take care of them.
Speaker 1:I feed them Like isn't it weird that how society does that to men?
Speaker 2:And you're like this is my kids Like they don't like check in on the wife and go like oh, you're watching the kids Like no, they're her kids.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:It's so jacked up, it's so kind of it really is jacked up, yeah, so.
Speaker 4:Well, and then like the self-care thing too, I don't like. People are like oh, self-care day, you know, hashtag, getting my nails done, that's not a thing for me, right, like. And also that's not self-care, self-care for me. My coach like challenged me. She's like so like I, you know, I no longer had that job at church and I no longer was like the accountant person for my. We've got some pretty incredible people in the IEB community and in the inspection community that will like take your books off of your hands. So I'm like these things are not serving me as a you, but I want them to happen. You know, I want them to happen in my life or in my circle, or in my household or in my business, but like I'm not the one doing these, so like, as you start giving these things away, as you realize that that's not serving you, that's like the backwards way of getting really clear Cause.
Speaker 4:like sometimes you have to get rid of those distractions. We don't. We don't always have time to just like, like okay, I'm just like bowing out of everything and I'm going to take this empty plate and only put on on the things that I like. Sometimes it's better to say, okay, this sucks.
Speaker 2:Like.
Speaker 4:Hey, do you do this? All right, sweet, like, how much do I have to pay you to?
Speaker 1:do that I mean just figure it out.
Speaker 4:But like I was challenged to take 48 hours away and that was my very first time being alone and that was more self care than I ever would have thought to do for myself.
Speaker 3:Like alone for 48 hours.
Speaker 4:I was a different person when I came back.
Speaker 3:Um, so you know it's funny um talking about that question is how is this serving you? Yeah, um. I when, when Jamie was working part-time at the church, um, it was very clear to me that she didn't have the bandwidth for it.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:And uh, and I, so I kept saying different versions of that right, Jay, you have a business that you need to focus on, right? Yeah, Jay, we have a young child and you're gone for six hours every Sunday, right Right?
Speaker 1:Right, they're swaddled in later, yeah.
Speaker 3:Like, we typically camp on the weekend. So she's driving an hour from the campground to get to church on time, right? And then she's coming back an hour later on Sunday. So our Sundays have been taken, and that's. I kept saying the obvious to her, right. And then I was getting frustrated because she wasn't doing anything about it. She was still keeping the job Right. And then I'll never forget, your coach said Jamie, how is, how is this job serving you?
Speaker 4:Yeah, it was just in a different the words. The words meant something so different than exactly what you were saying but it meant something so different well, and and, and, and.
Speaker 3:That was when jamie made the decision, like I this, because what, what, the, the zooming out? She had been talking about this position like a year before it actually happened right, okay, so the year before was good timing fast forward to the future. It was not right. Yeah, so so, so, um. So when, when jamie's coach asked her, how is this serving you? She it changed the perspective right, right, so she came home and of course, my first instinct was like I've been telling you this for three months, right, um?
Speaker 4:but but what I realized was what I meant. Good is to say, ah, that's a great decision.
Speaker 1:My loving, my loving wife.
Speaker 4:So proud of you.
Speaker 3:But. But what I learned was is, while my intention was to help her understand that this was not serving her Right, I made it about the things that I felt she was missing out on. Yeah, not about the things that I felt she was missing out on. Yeah, not about the things that actually, like that, were about her Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so this is one of the things that.
Speaker 3:I've changed in our, in, in our marriage and how I communicate. That's so good. I look at it as how is this serving us Right?
Speaker 3:So like even even in the things that I'm selfish in. Right like it's hunting season, I am gone every weekend. Like tomorrow I'm gonna be here and my cousin is going to the hunting property. I'm gonna text him a million times because I want to know what's happening at the hunting. Right, right, um, and I am taking time away from my family and I'm spending a crap load of money because it's an expensive hobby.
Speaker 1:And so.
Speaker 3:Matt, this better serve me at a very high level Cause, if it's not it's not fair to my family and it's not fair to my bank account and it's not fair to all these areas of my life. So like, so like. That's my advice for you couples, and you husbands and your spouse, that you want to show up in your marriage in a big way.
Speaker 3:You want to show up in your, in your marriage in a big way. You want to show up in your, in your business in a big way. Everything that happens. How is this serving? You I am a home inspector still, and I'm a solo shop, even though I need to go out and hire two people. Yeah right, but I'm afraid to do it. Well, how is that service? How?
Speaker 1:is that serving? You right, you're doing reports until 3 am every night. How is that serving your child? Yeah, how is that?
Speaker 2:serving you right. Yeah, how is that serving you? Right, how is that serving you? That's such a great question. I love that Dude.
Speaker 3:And like I know, you well enough to know, like you know, I know you know this the minute you say no to something that you have been told to say no to a million times, but you haven't done it yet. Yeah, yeah, yeah, like that time to give up.
Speaker 1:That thing you were afraid of you realized wasn't actually. You know, it was a mind monster, right, yeah, right, it was a mind monster that that didn't have any freaking bearing right so that's one of the like.
Speaker 3:It's so hard right like I. I want to make it clear I fight this every single day because, by nature, I want to solve the problem right, so she comes home. She's stressed out about something. By nature, I want to solve that problem Right, so she comes home. She's stressed out about something by nature. I want to solve that problem Right, but what I really really need to do is what I really need to ask is how can I serve you through this?
Speaker 4:Yeah, yep Right, yep Right, do you want me? To listen, or do you want me to help you?
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, oh right. That's a good yeah Right. Do you want me to fix?
Speaker 3:this and then being okay, I mean probably once a month we have a conversation where we say we don't have to do this.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Right, we don't have to own this business. Well, you don't have to. We don't have to do anything. No, you don't have to, and there's just so much permission.
Speaker 2:I think that's such a great way to look at it, to be able to put that in perspective, because every single time I've looked at you and said we don't have to do this.
Speaker 3:You don't have to do this. Yeah, what happens?
Speaker 4:I cry sometimes. You cry but a lot of times I felt like I was trapped, like you're saying that to me and you feel this like freedom and you're absolutely right. But I like always respond to you like I'm trapped, like what else am I going to do? But really, worst case scenario, let's say our team of 10 is thrown out the window and I could just be a home inspector, like if you like, and you're a phenomenal business coach, so like we can just like figure that out.
Speaker 2:And who's?
Speaker 4:to say that God doesn't have something completely different planned out, but we're so busy in our own heads that we're not listening.
Speaker 3:We don't know what that next thing is, because we have this like agenda, Well, and sometimes like you have to have the pity party right, like I know, coaches aren't supposed to say that but sometimes you have to have the pity party right.
Speaker 1:So, like so, one of us acknowledging that we don't have to do this is like.
Speaker 3:All right, you're right.
Speaker 2:You're right, you're right, we get to right we don't have to do this Right.
Speaker 3:That's really good so you know, I think for us, like it's really, it's just really been a combination of, like, jamie needs to feel loved and I need to feel respected, and the only way to make that happen is to ask really good questions and to say, and to stay curious? Yeah Right, Because what I've learned is sometimes she has an idea and the delivery for her in it super meaningful to her, but not necessarily that impactful to me.
Speaker 1:Right, right.
Speaker 3:So instead of poopooing that idea, I just need to understand where she's coming from.
Speaker 1:And then by the end of it I'm like that's a fricking great idea.
Speaker 2:Yeah Right, yeah Right.
Speaker 3:But I have to. I have to love my wife.
Speaker 2:And if I?
Speaker 3:poopoo on her. I'm not living my life.
Speaker 2:Right, Absolutely.
Speaker 3:It's a very it's a very technical term, yeah.
Speaker 2:I like that. It's very technical, I think. I mean, I think, like what we've covered is it's pretty amazing. Thank you, man, you know right when, like just some of the and the love and the respect, what you guys have navigated over the past season of your life and where you're at today and and seeing how you guys have done this and you are operating so well in business is just fantastic. I'm sure that people listening are going to be like I have questions.
Speaker 2:And so each of you guys. What's the best way for someone to reach out to you if they have further questions? Want to talk to you more.
Speaker 4:Oh, literally social media is probably really good.
Speaker 2:Jamie, I just want to talk to you more, oh literally Social media is probably really good, jamie Paternoster. Yeah, just all of them Facebook, instagram.
Speaker 3:Okay so Jamie.
Speaker 1:Paternoster.
Speaker 3:Yeah, all right, I'll try to put that in our show notes here.
Speaker 4:Yeah, j-a-y-m-i-e. I've got to spell it right?
Speaker 3:Okay, I've got to spell it's just Brandon Petterson, but I'm not on social very often.
Speaker 2:Okay so what's best for you?
Speaker 3:So definitely follow me and find me on social, but I don't post. It's a good way to reach out directly, but my email, brandon, at IEB Coaching, is the one email that I actually put attention to Brandon at I. Okay, and some of these resources, like the clarity resources and stuff, I'd love to send out to anybody that was looking to do that.
Speaker 2:That's awesome.
Speaker 3:Or if they want to have a conversation about coaching, of course.
Speaker 2:This has been a great conversation and I'm sure it's going to help a lot of people who are in business together as spouses. Just keep fighting the fight, yeah.
Speaker 3:Just keep fighting the fight the right way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, right, right.
Speaker 2:The right way.
Speaker 3:Focus on your why, and everything else comes out of that.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. Well, guys, thank you so much for being on the show. This was a fantastic conversation. Yeah, thanks, matt, Appreciate that, thanks.
Speaker 1:You've been listening to Empire State of Mind. For the home inspection industry and beyond, our passion is to elevate the home inspection industry with mindset, strategy and tools. We hope you've enjoyed the show. Make sure to like, rate and review. For more, follow on Instagram at IEB Coaching and don't forget to hit the website at wwwiebcoachingcom. Learn about IEB at no cost and have all your questions answered On our open call once a month on the third week of the month. We hope to see you there and we'll see you next time on the Empire State of Mind.
